Howard Marks visita a Tim Ferriss

El otro día Howard Marks, autor de Cómo dominar el ciclo de las inversiones y Lo más importante para invertir con sentido común, reverenciado por tantos de Vds. y su (ahí dejo la ambigüedad del antecedente) amigo Mr. Buffett, acudió al famoso podcast del trendsetter y un tanto pagado de sí mismo tetrahoril autor Tim Ferriss. Siempre en la búsqueda del santo Grial, quizás oculto a la vista de todos, estuve escuchando la chapa y tomando unas cuantas notas, que les dejo aquí para su deleite y espero que sesuda discusión y cuestionamiento.

Sobre las perspectivas económicas.

Para los amantes del retrovisor, el Sr. Marks tiene una noticia que darles: esta vez es diferente (ya se que a algunos aún les dura la resaca de estas palabras, ninguno lector de +D). Va a ser difícil extrapolar (dicen que a veces funciona, shhh) en esta ocasión pues nos enfrentamos a un poder tenebroso:

  • No se ha vivido una crisis sanitaria igual en el mundo en al menos 100 años
  • El shock económico (todavía pendiente de mostrar la patita, pero igual lo hace de patadón) es el peor desde la Gran Depresión
  • El precio del petróleo ha colapsado (no se qué pinta esto aquí pero seremos exhaustivos y completivos que esto no es La Secsta)
  • El paquete de estímulo que se viene no tiene parangón en la historia

En resumen, un cóctel de lo desconocido que todavía no sabemos si ha sido surtido por Diageo y sus finos licores o por la bodega de la esquina

El cuarto punto es especialmente interesante. La Fed por sí sola ya está dándolo todo y la ayuda que está metiendo el Gobierno americano en la economía totaliza los 10 billones (no se equivoquen que yo hablo con propiedad de billones, no como cierto nefando doctorando (¿o es Dr. ya?)). El problema es que no hay ningún precedente de lo que puede pasar en esta situación. Es una medicina totalmente nueva y sin experimentar para un problema que probablemente no se ha caracterizado al menos completamente del todo aún. ¿Servirá para algo? No lo sabemos.

Mr. Marks piensa no ya que “it will be enough” sino que van a seguir metiéndole hasta que la economía pueda valerse por sí misma o nos hundamos en el mundo madmaxiano lo que primero suceda. La analogía más elegante de Mr. Marks es que van a poner al paciente en coma hasta que se cure y mientras tanto mantenerlo con las máquinas que haga falta. Marks también habla del desempleo como el factor fundamental que observará la Fed.á un

Howard está también un poco acongojado por los imprevisibles efectos negativos de este plan. Bueno, no se preocupe buen hombre, que si no los hay nadie se lo va a echar en cara. Y si los hay pues ahí tiene un yoyalo y 30 ó 40 libros y conferencias más en ciernes.

Ya saben que en Europa no nos quedamos cojos y van a poner en marcha nuestros líderes franco-alemanes siempre tan buenos amigos ellos, ejem, 500000M € de ayudas que es algo así como un 5% de lo del tío Sam. Chúpate esa Donaldo.

Las principales preguntas alrededor de todo este gran reto, seguro que las han leído en Público o en OKDiario en ese análisis sosegado que les caracteriza, pero bueno aquí van:

  • ¿Cuándo dispondremos de una vacuna?
  • ¿Habrá nuevas olas de infectados?
  • ¿Cuánto tardará la economía en volver a la situación anterior a nivel de oferta?
  • ¿Cuánto tardará la economía en rebotar?

Aparentemente el consenso es que no nos recuperamos hasta 2021 y no nos hacemos más grandes hasta 2022. Pues nada ya saben aquello de el mercado hace lo que más puede molestar al mayor número de gente. Atención amigo gest… digo conductor.

Llega para el final el mejor momento. Lo que piensa Mr. Marks sobre como forrarse con comisiones.

  • Como inversores vivimos en un compromiso entre el coste de oportunidad (lo que los ácidos periodistas financieros llaman FOMO: fear of missing out o miedo a perdérselo) y el coste de daytrading o de pérdida de capital si me permiten la licencia poética.
  • Como vivimos en un mundo de retornos deprimidos (menos si van a tope de FAANGs) pues la gente está arriesgando más de la cuenta y es más importante concentrarse en la defensa que en el ataque (intuyo que Mr. Marks estará intentando “cerrar la horquilla”, mal de muchos…). ¿Y cómo se defiende uno?:
    – Cash
    – Clases defensivas como bonos (risas) y acciones de grandes y estables compañías yanquis
    – Moverse hacia fondos de inversión (!!!)

Para dar ejemplo la estrategia estrella de Mr. Marks es invertir en deuda distressed, ejem. Se lamenta Mr. Marks de que mientras la Fed siga entrando a comprar todo lo que se mueve no dejan que estos activos que le interesan a Mr. Marks bajen de precio lo suficiente y no pueden hacer de malvados capitalistas. La dura vida del buitre leonado.

¿Qué les parece todo esto?

  • Mr. Marks es una gran estrella mediática
  • Mr. Marks es un viejo zorro
  • Tim Ferriss es repelente
  • Constato que no me afecta

0 votantes

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Yo votaria la opción 5) Mr.Marks is an asshole,

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5 y asshole en la misma frase. Sabe Vd. el chiste aquel de los osos…

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Pues no, no lo sé. He probado varias combinaciones en google y no hay manera.

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Le noto Arturop especialmente crítico con los señores Marks y Ferriss.

Seré breve pues ya se han explicado suficientemente bien ambos señores. Creo que esta vez es diferente y que la inversión indexada nos llevará al abismo. Y lo se porque soy inversor activo al ser hijo de padres nerviosos, no paro en todo el día, aunque no me sirvió para librarme de la mili no obstante alegarlo.

Y un poquito de envidia, también, que empiezo a conocerle, ya nos gustaría a todos lucir esos pectorales que gasta el Sr. Ferriss cuando usa en sus fotos camisetas Ferrys estilo “imperio”, diciéndole a una rubia despampanante: “esta noche te susurro al oído las diferencias entre EBITDA y EBIT, mi sielo”

Como se nota que el Sr. Ferriss ha invertido en Peloton y Ud. no. Yo sigo con mis huevos, me refiero a los de Calm, pero el publico femenino no me hace tanto caso como al Sr. Ferriss, lo que para mí es inexplicable pues no uso camisetas.

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Aún recuerdo el anuncio de pantalones Ferriss (o era Ferry’s?). Sea como fuera veo feo que dedicasen un podcast a Terry me va y no al señor de los vaqueros que ahora aparece dando caña.

Molan mucho tus ferriss

Edito: Resulta que eran calzoncillos y no pantalones, la memoria…

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Google “chiste del cazador y los osos”

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No se me ocurría otra forma de hacer más amena la lectura; bien es cierto que es posible que la haya empeorado

yo creo que el Sr. Ferriss es más de susurrar sobre utilizar hormonas experimentales y compuestos psicotrópicas

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Ya sabe, Arturop, que le leo en profundidad y con detenimiento, no obstante la parquedad de sus respuestas. Pero soy consciente que lo hace para que nos estrujemos las meninges, no darnos todo cocido, a lo que me he dedicado en exclusiva en las últimas horas para descifrar lo que me dice. Y le señalo algo que no le sorprenderá: tiene Ud. toda la razón.

Así que cambio mi frase cuando esté al lado de una rubiales y le diré al finalizar la cita, ella extasiada y yo orgulloso de mis habilidades: “Ni con un trio con Howard Marks y Tim Ferriss te hubiera ido mejor, sielo”

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Howard Marks me parece un tipo la mar de curioso sin duda. Tiene un punto misántropo que tira para atrás y a la vez mezcla en sus escritos cuestiones de gran profundidad con otros debates de barra de bar que me deja un poco loco. Pero al grano y sobre lo último de uno de los superinvestors:

  • Ya advirtió con tino hace 2 años en “Here we go again, and again” que estaba advirtiendo los mismos signos de calentamiento que en la anterior crisis
  • Tuvo luego un año que casi no escribió salvo para criticar a los socialistas :rofl: y su incapacidad de crear riqueza
  • Creo que ahora anda un poco perdido y temo que en la actual crisis y con la decisión que parecen haber tomado los estados de ir hacia una devaluación masiva de nuestras divisas para monetizar deuda, las estrategias de stress investing que le hicieron muchimillonario son más difíciles que nunca ya que a la FED no le puedes echar un pulso así como así.
  • Sobre los temas del shock o del petróleo no entro, que ya se ha tratado demasiado,
  • Pero sí hay que ver su visión del “péndulo” y de la necesidad de elegir entre “ataque o defensa”. El problema es que actualmente creo que le es dificil a Mr Marks encontrar dónde defenderse, como a todos dicho sea de paso. Una cosa es guardar 10.000 € en el banco y estar acojonado a que Pedro y Pablo le metan mano y otra qué hacer con 10.000.000.000 $ en el banco y que te cobren un indignante -1% por mantenerlo ahí. Este inversor ha movido siempre muy bien ese balance y creo que a no ser que se tire a la versión más “diiip value” comprando la chatarra que los de intrépidos como azvalor tienen a bien poseer no debe encontrar dónde colocar los lereles con el margen que a él le gusta.
    Ojo, que igual visualizan un -50% en el Dow o el NASDAQ pero sin una crsisi bancaria de aúpa me cuesta verlo, y es que la FED y Mr Trump (con acento bolivariano) no tienen intención de hacer nada de esto…Por lo menos hasta ganar las elections…

digo yo

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By the way, si lo desean y vista la popularidad del Mr Marks, adjunto un resumen de las notas que realicé del libro “The most Important thing Illuminated” hace some time ago. Dejo los primeros capítulos y alguna cosilla más, el resto lo facturamos aparte (que de algún modo tendré que rentabilizar el trabajo, ya que los de AZ no ayudan :rofl:…)

Capítulos Página Comentario
1 10 an effective investment philosophy, developed and honed over more than four decades and implemented conscientiously by highly skilled individuals who share culture and values.
1 10 A philosophy has to be the sum of many ideas accumulated over a long period of time from a variety of sources.
1 15 Psychology plays a major role in markets, and because it’s highly variable, cause-and-effect relationships aren’t reliable.
1 15 investment approach be intuitive and adaptive rather than be fixed and mechanistic.
1 17 Remember, your goal in investing isn’t to earn average returns; you want to do better than average. Thus, your thinking has to be better than that of others—both
2 23 The market will set prices so that appears to be the case, but it won’t provide a “free lunch.” That is, there will be no incremental return that is not related to (and compensatory for) incremental risk.
2 31 For every person who gets a good buy in an inefficient market, someone else sells too cheap.
2 32 A corollary that follows from Marks’s observation is that investors should look for markets or assets that are not fully efficiently priced rather than chase after the false god of completely inefficient markets.
2 32 Something else to keep in mind: just because efficiencies exist today doesn’t mean they’ll remain forever.
3 36 In other words, an investor has two basic choices: gauge the security’s underlying intrinsic value and buy or sell when the price diverges from it, or base decisions purely on expectations regarding future price movements.
3 38 The emphasis in value investing is on tangible factors like hard assets and cash flows. Intangibles like talent, popular fashions and long-term growth potential are given less weight.
3 42 If value investing has the potential to consistently produce favorable results, does that mean it’s easy? No. For one thing, it depends on an accurate estimate of value. Without that, any hope for consistent success as an investor is just that: hope.
3 42 being proved correct right away. It’s hard to consistently do the right thing as an investor. But it’s impossible to consistently do the right thing at the right time. The most we value investors can hope for is to be right about an asset’s value and buy when it’s available for less.
3 43 Joel Greenblatt: Unless you buy at the exact bottom tick (which is next to impossible), you will be down at some point after you make every investment.
3 44 There, many people tend to fall further in love with the thing they’ve bought as its price rises, since they feel validated, and they like it less as the price falls, when they begin to doubt their decision to buy.
3 44 This makes it very difficult to hold, and to buy more at lower prices (which investors call “averaging down”), especially if the decline proves to be extensive. If you liked it at 60, you should like it more at 50 . . . and much more at 40 and 30.
4 46 Value investors score their biggest gains when they buy an underpriced asset, average down unfailingly and have their analysis proved out. Thus, there are two essential ingredients for profit in a declining market: you have to have a view on intrinsic value, and you have to hold that view strongly enough to be able to hang in and buy even as price declines suggest that you’re wrong. Oh yes, there’s a third: you have to be right.
4 46 Christopher Davis: However, investors should be wary of the risk of obsolescence, which can turn a cheap stock into a value trap.
4 47 No asset class or investment has the birthright of a high return. It’s only attractive if it’s priced right.
4 47 decision. No matter how good an investment sounds, if price has not yet been considered, you can’t know if it is a good investment.
4 48 Joel Greenblatt: Many value investors are not good at knowing when to sell (and many sell way too early). However, knowing when to buy cures many of the mistakes resulting from selling too early.
4 49 You can’t make a career out of buying from forced sellers and selling to forced buyers; they’re not around all the time, just on rare occasions at the extremes of crises and bubbles.
4 51 The key is who likes the investment now and who doesn’t. Future price changes will be determined by whether it comes to be liked by more people or fewer people in the future.
4 51 The safest and most potentially profitable thing is to buy something when no one likes it. Given time, its popularity, and thus its price, can only go one way: up.
4 53 But as the price rises further and investors become more inflamed by the possibility of easy money, they think less and less about whether the price is fair. It’s an extreme rendition of the phenomenon I described earlier: people should like something less when its price rises, but in investing they often like it more.
4 54 The positives behind stocks can be genuine and still produce losses if you overpay for them.
4 54 Those positives—and the massive profits that seemingly everyone else is enjoying—can eventually cause those who have resisted participating to capitulate and buy.
4 54 Things can be overpriced and stay that way for a long time . . . or become far more so. Eventually,
4 55 In bubbles, infatuation with market momentum takes over from any notion of value and fair price, and greed (plus the pain of standing by as others make seemingly easy money) neutralizes any prudence that might otherwise hold sway.
4 56 Over the years leverage has been associated with high returns, but also with the most spectacular meltdowns and crashes.
4 55 can strive to create increases in value through active management of the asset. This is worth doing, but it’s time-consuming and uncertain and requires considerable expeartise.
5 57 Fear of looking wrong: It comes as quite a shock to many new investors how long it can take for even correct judgments to work out.
5 62 It’s meant to suggest both the positive relationship between risk and expected return and the fact that uncertainty about the return and the possibility of loss increase as risk increases.
5 62 And yet, finance theory (the same theory that contributed the risk-return graph shown in figure 5.1 and the concept of risk-adjustment) defines risk very precisely as volatility (or variability or deviation). None of these conveys the necessary sense of “peril.”
5 63 There are many kinds of risk…. But volatility may be the least relevant of them all.
5 63 Thus, it’s hard for me to believe volatility is the risk investors factor in when setting prices and prospective returns.
5 63 Rather than volatility, I think people decline to make investments primarily because they’re worried about a loss of capital or an unacceptably low return.
5 64 The possibility of permanent loss is the risk I worry about, Oaktree worries about and every practical investor I know worries about.
5 64 Johnson: I would go so far as to say that the risk of permanent capital loss is the only risk to worry about.
5 64 Falling short of one’s goal—Investors have differing needs, and for each investor the failure to meet those needs poses a risk.
5 64 That’s “benchmark risk,”
5 64 But every investor who’s unwilling to throw in the towel on outperformance, and who chooses to deviate from the index in its pursuit, will have periods of significant underperformance.
5 65 Specifically, in crazy times, disciplined investors willingly accept the risk of not taking enough risk to keep up.
5 65 risk: the risk that arises when the people who manage money and the people whose money it is are different people.
5 65 risk that could jeopardize return to an agent’s firing point is rarely worth taking.
5 65 Unconventionality—Along similar lines, there’s the risk of being different.
5 66 Illiquidity—If an investor needs money with which to pay for surgery in three months or buy a home in a year, he or she may be unable to make an investment that can’t be counted on for liquidity that meets the schedule.
5 71 It’s impossible to assess the accuracy of probability estimates other than 0 and 100 except over a very large number of trials.
5 71 “Risk means more things can happen than will happen.”
5 72 Understanding uncertainty: The possibility of a variety of outcomes means we mustn’t think of the future in terms of a single result but rather as a range of possibilities. The best we can do is fashion a probability distribution that summarizes the possibilities and describes their relative likelihood.
5 73 “There’s a big difference between probability and outcome. Probable things fail to happen—and improbable things happen—all the time.”
5 74 The most common bell-shaped distribution is called the “normal” distribution. However, people often use the terms bell-shaped and normal interchangeably, and they’re not the same.
5 74 In many cases they made the assumption that future events would be normally distributed.
5 74 Thus, when widespread mortgage defaults began to occur, events thought to be unlikely befell mortgage-related vehicles on a regular basis. Investors in vehicles that had been constructed on the basis of normal distributions, without much allowance for “tail events”
5 74 Quantification often lends excessive authority to statements that should be taken with a grain of salt. That creates significant potential for trouble.
5 75 Many futures are possible, to paraphrase Dimson, but only one future occurs. The future you get may be beneficial to your portfolio or harmful, and that may be attributable to your foresight, prudence or luck.
5 76 Risk can be judged only by sophisticated, experienced second-level thinkers.
5 76 Many things could have happened in each case in the past, and the fact that only one did happen understates the variability that existed.
5 76 The point is, people usually expect the future to be like the past and underestimate the potential for change.
5 76 We hear a lot about “worst-case” projections, but they often turn out not to be negative enough.
5 77 most people view risk taking primarily as a way to make money.
6 78 risk as increasing during upswings, as financial imbalances build up, and materializing in recessions.
6 78 Risk means uncertainty about which outcome will occur and about the possibility of loss when the unfavorable ones do.
6 79 The greatest risk doesn’t come from low quality or high volatility. It comes from paying prices that are too high. This isn’t a theoretical risk; it’s very real.
7 101 Even if we realize that unusual, unlikely things can happen, in order to act we make reasoned decisions and knowingly accept that risk when well paid to do so. Once in a while, a “black swan” will materialize. But if in the future we always said, “We can’t do such-and-such, because the outcome could be worse than we’ve ever seen before,” we’d be frozen in inaction.
9 111 When things are going well, extrapolation introduces great risk.
erpriced.
9 113 Risk aversion is the essential ingredient in a rational market, as I said before, and the position of the pendulum with regard to it is particularly important.
9 114 The pendulum swing regarding attitudes toward risk is one of the most powerful of all. In fact, I’ve recently boiled down the main risks in investing to two: the risk of losing money and the risk of missing opportunity.
9 115 The first, when a few forward-looking people begin to believe things will get better The second, when most investors realize improvement is actually taking place The third, when everyone concludes things will get better forever
9 117 The ultimate danger zone is reached when investors are in agreement that things can only get better forever. That makes no sense, but most people fall for it. It’s what creates bubbles—just as the opposite produces crashes.
9 117 The first, when just a few thoughtful investors recognize that, despite the prevailing bullishness, things won’t always be rosy The second, when most investors recognize things are deteriorating The third, when everyone’s convinced things can only get worse
9 119 Joel Greenblatt: This means markets will always create opportunities, whether now or later. In markets with few opportunities, it’s important to be patient. Value opportunities will eventually present themselves, usually after no more than a year or two.
9 119 The swing back from the extreme is usually more rapid—and thus takes much less time—than the swing to the extreme. (Or as my partner Sheldon Stone likes to say, “The air goes out of the balloon much faster than it went in.”)
10 124 Joel Greenblatt: Many of the mistakes I have made are the same ones that I had made before; they just look a little different each time—the same mistake slightly disguised.
10 125 The fourth psychological contributor to investor error is the tendency to conform to the view of the herd rather than resist—even when the herd’s view is clearly cockeyed.
10 126 “many people who don’t share the consensus view of the market start to feel left out. Eventually it reaches a stage where it appears the really crazy people are those not in the market.”
10 126 Time and time again, the combination of pressure to conform and the desire to get rich causes people to drop their independence and skepticism, overcome their innate risk aversion and believe things that don’t make sense.
10 126 The fifth psychological influence is envy. However negative the force of greed might be, always spurring people to strive for more and more, the impact is even stronger when they compare themselves to others.
10 126 People who might be perfectly happy with their lot in isolation become miserable when they see others do better.
10 134 Greed, excitement, illogicality, suspension of disbelief and ignoring value cost people a lot of money in the tech bubble. And, by the way, a lot of brilliant, disciplined value investors looked dumb in the months and years before the bubble burst—which of course it eventually did.
10 135 Investors who believe they’re immune to the forces described in this chapter do so at their own peril.
10 135 a bull case is so powerful that it can make adults overlook elevated valuations and deny the impossibility of the perpetual-motion machine, why shouldn’t it have the same influence on you?
10 135 Believe me, it’s hard to resist buying at the top (and harder still to sell) when everyone else is buying, the pundits are positive, the rationale is widely accepted, prices are soaring and the biggest risk takers are reporting huge returns.
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Yo he de reconocer especial simpatía y admiración por el señor Marks, a parte de por tener un nombre realmente sonoro “Howard Stanley Marks” (ahí es nada), haber nacido el día del libro y escribir más sobre nuestro fútbol (soccer) que del suyo patrio. Hasta ahora me ha aportado ese contrapunto de no querer compararse con los mejores pero evitar a toda costa estar con los peores bajo ninguna circunstancia. En esta larga carrera que tenemos enfrente, por un lado anima a ese pequeño kamikaze que tengo dentro que decide elegir acciones de manera individual aún sabiendo de los riesgos, mientras que por otro me deja claro que los resultados de la media son más que buenos (aunque el batacazo te lo comas enterito). Amén de ser quien me introdujo al mundo Talebiano (rímelo quien quiera).

Pero también pienso que uno de sus trabajos es escribir, y claro, un escritor no puede contar cada día lo mismo e interesar a la gente. Eso suele pasar bastante, una vez has previsto que todo es igual y estamos en un ciclo eterno ¿Quién va a comprar “Mi librillo igual que el anterior en el que no voy a contar nada nuevo”? En cambio si transformo mi pensamiento en uno más maduro y me aventuro con “Lo de antes no vale, lean esto”… BEST- SELLER

Y con eso pues cubrimos la fase mala de las inversiones y sobre todo esa parte del ego que estará dolida por no sacar buena rentabilidad.

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